@charleannej, I forgot to add your RSU membership item.  Apologies.  Is there anything to discuss or have you figured out a way to circumvent the glitch that is not giving people a full 1-year?

@acasseday Thanks for mentioning that.  I haven’t had a chance to look into this yet.  To give everyone a bit more insight, I noticed that when people pay for yearly club membership RunSignUp is only giving them membership for the calendar year, not a 365 day membership.  So if someone pays for a membership on December 16 they only get 15 days of membership.

Just an update to tell everyone what I'm working on lately. At Annual Meeting 2023, we discussed automatic timing systems for aid stations. Mikala mentioned the Baker Ultra Trail Challenge uses RFID tags that runners scan at aid stations. I talked with the RD and he gave me some pointers for getting started. Any commercial item on the market costs thousands of dollars and are mostly focused on high-volume road running events with hundreds to thousands of people. There are some DIY items out there however that requires a tech-savvy person to setup, but should be convenient to operate at aid stations. I've ordered some equipment to test and see what I can develop. I don't have timeline for this, so definitely won't be complete any time soon, but maybe I can have a beta version for some event this year. Maybe the Annual Meeting so its low stakes.

Here is the equipment so far

RFID read/write https://www.phidgets.com/?prodid=1023

RFID Chip https://www.phidgets.com/?prodid=560

Raspberry Pi (Computer) https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/

Amazon Battery Pack 

An alternative to my DIY approach that is at least semi-affordable is WebScorer. https://www.webscorer.com/resources/pricinginfo

$450 per year subscription for 5 devices (so 4 aid stations and finish). Plus a $52 bluetooth NFC reader at each 5 locations. NFC readers connect via bluetooth to someone's phone, no internet required. And $2 per NFC tag, so 200 Highlands Sky runners is $400 one time fee. 

So about a $750 initial investment. Recurring cost of $450 per year + some cost for replacing lost/broken NFC tags.

Very cool @rhodes5.  Thank you very much for taking on this task!

Another update of sort.  Dan and I have decided to create a broader race committee for the execution of Highlands Sky and Trilogy.  The Highlands committee is made up of Dan and myself, Andrew, Megan Carroll, Michelle Price, and Pete Daly.  Trilogy is made of those same parties, but with the addition of Dennis Stottlemyer and Stacin Martin. 

Some of the objectives in making this move are:

1) Creating a perpetuation plan for the races:  We want these races to last beyond us, so the more people that have knowledge of the integral innerworkings, the greater the likelihood of extended perpetuation.

2) Breathing new ideas into the events:  Let's face it, when you do something for a long time, you get stagnant.  Dan and I want new input and ideas infused into our events.  We're both kind of old curmudgeons that don't often, or easily, change.  We hope that new input will improve the events in ways that we are deficient.

3) Share the work/Share the glory: Many hands make light work.  Dan is wanting to step back a bit in the near future and these races are arduous tasks to handle alone.  We also want to give more credit to these already key entities that are the lifeblood of our events.

Anyway, this is a work in progress.  We had a brief Zoom meeting on Monday evening with everyone starting the discussion.  I'll keep everyone up-to-date, but I would surmise that this plan will only make these two WVMTR events stronger, more efficient, and more resilient in the future.

Posted by: @arhodes5

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An alternative to my DIY approach that is at least semi-affordable is WebScorer. https://www.webscorer.com/resources/pricinginfo

$450 per year subscription for 5 devices (so 4 aid stations and finish). Plus a $52 bluetooth NFC reader at each 5 locations. NFC readers connect via bluetooth to someone's phone, no internet required. And $2 per NFC tag, so 200 Highlands Sky runners is $400 one time fee. 

So about a $750 initial investment. Recurring cost of $450 per year + some cost for replacing lost/broken NFC tags.

That's not a bad price for the efficiency that it would provide.

Thanks for the feedback @acasseday, I'll look into Webscorer more and see if I can get access to a demo trial.

@arhodes5 Thanks for looking into this Andrew.  Will be interested to see what options might work.  Is the intent to have live tracking during the race, or just collecting more data so we’ll have information on when each runner passed through each aid station?

@acasseday Great idea Adam!  Continuity is key for all the events.  It seems like more have disappeared recently than new ones being introduced, so anything we can do to keep the races alive and current is great.

@charleannej Live tracking and accurate aid station arrival time are both possible. The original intent was to reduce the hassle of searching through papers to write down a runners name and time. Especially in wet environments. And to have better track of where runners may be lost between aid stations. All the aid station splits can be posted to results later too. Live GPS tracking is possible too with Webscorer for $1 per person but requires the runner to carry their phone and have cell service. 

I switched my registration platform to UltraSignUp to use their free race timing software.

- Seamless use of one platform for registration, bib assignment, timing, live results, final results

- Doesn't cost anything

- Easy to set up for live results by checkpoint with only a phone

For the KT, we set up the race with multiple check points (aid stations) and post a volunteer with the app running on their Apple or Android device at each aid station.  The screen has a grid of the registered bib numbers.  When that runner hits the aid station, they tap that bib on the screen.  If they have service, it automatically updates the live results.  If no service, it updates the next time they do have service. Finish line is the final checkpoint. 

I like it because it doesn't cost anything to use and is seamless for an RD from registration to bib assignment to timing to posting the final results. Same platform across the board.  The checkpoints help a lot with runner accountability.  The digital is still backed up by a clipboard and paper though.  UltraSignUp's user support is great too.  I talk to a real person every time I have a question or issue.  

That being said, we still use RunSignUp for the night races.  That's because so many families with kids sign up for those but UltraSignUp doesn't handle multiple registrations in one iteration like RunSignUp does.  The timing is also fairly "loose" on the night races, they're for fun. I just use a spreadsheet and clock. 

@bob-luther, so at the aid-stations it's still a manual check-in on the app?  We want some sort of automated scan similar to a timing mat, if possible.

First off, I have missed aid station splits at HS since you all (understandably) discontinued providing those. Id love to see that come back -- adds so much nuance to the race and results!

I like the sound of Bob's system -- I feel like automation is often oversold as plenty of manual attention is usually needed or desired to check for results or missing runners. I ran FAT (fully automated timing) systems for track meets for many years and can definitively say that back up in the booth it is definitely not "FA". I hear Adam saying he wants it to be easier for volunteers to handle and to be able to provide splits in results. 

I'm not educated on the other systems but I don't think an NFC tag system could be very automatic either, right? I'd be hesitant to depend on the bluetooth connection in such variable conditions and places. Sometimes, finding the "right amount" of automation is going to get us the best results with the least effort.

Its an interesting conversation!

@acasseday I am very happy to hear you guys are moving in this direction. Agree on all points in terms of succession plan, new ideas, and harnessing/recognizing the additional steam makers in the engines of these races. 

Someday I want to write an article or series of articles about all the people who have MOVED to West Virginia BECAUSE of WVMTR races. I'm lookin' at you Charlotte/Jeff! There's others too.

Keeping them going strong, keeping the welcoming vibe, keeping the efficient race management, and growing as needed with the passage of time, should be our top priority.